Plastic Industry

Posted:  12 Jun 2008 14:12
To stay competitive, my business strategy over the last several years has entailed sourcing my plastics injection molds and plastics tooling to China.

Over the last several months, we have adjusted our strategy of sourcing plastics tooling as the cost differential has diminished a great deal.  We have found that since the cost gap is not what it use to be, sourcing plastics tools in the US is again a viable option.

Does anyone have any opinions on this?  Are you seeing the same thing in your business?

Tom Duffey
Posted:  12 Jun 2008 23:00
We have also seen the same issue with the cost of Domestic tooling being more in line with the Chinese cost.  I think that the Chinese are starting to play on a much more level field.

The cost of steel and labor are increasing in China.  Domestic suppliers have continued to invest in machinery with faster cutting speeds, require less finishing, and can run un-attended.  I believe that these are some of the factors in the price changes.

We have also seen dramatic increases in component costs as well as capacity issues with suppliers in China (one could only run 4 days a week due to losing power).  We have found that our local manufacturing can be cost competitive with China, if not cheaper.  You have to look at all costs including the impact of overhead if your plant is running under capacity.

My personal outlook is to keep as much tooling domestic as I can.  The local shops are very necessary for our business and they can't make it on repair work alone. 

J

Jeff Sciutto
Posted:  13 Jun 2008 12:13
Thogus has never directly sourced our tooling overseas.  We have been very successful with our domestic sources.  The game has changed whereby tooling is not the profit center it used to be, but the necessity of proximity is definitely an advantage. 

We used to have more pressure from our client base to look at tooling overseas, for the perception of a cost savings.  In each instance, our customer decided to tool up in China for a 10-20% savings.  By the time the tooling was corrected here, they spent 20-35% more.  Not to mention the tooling guarantee was voided  because they made changes to the tools here, rather than in China.

Hope this helps.
Posted:  18 Jun 2008 22:35
We've used offshore moldbuilders on occasion, but we're definitely seeing a diminishing cost variance between domestic and offshore moldbuilders. 

Sure, the initial price is almost always lower on a Chinese mold.  However, we have a spreadsheet that we've developed to plug in all of the cost adders involved (freight, tariffs, sample material shipping costs, sample shipping costs, customs paperwork, transport from terminal, travel costs, rework costs).  Once those costs are factored in (not including the communication delays and late hours spent communicating with the supplier), the cost difference is often negligible.

In some cases, we provide our customer with the requested "China" tooling quote, and then build the mold domestically for a lower cost.  If it's a simple mold or MUD insert, it's just not worth the hassle.

Mike Walter
Posted:  30 Sep 2008 16:33
AQA Corp. recently became a member of MAPP.  Our business is sourcing injection molds from China as a service to US molders and toolmakers.  We therefore were very interested to read the June correspondence in the Forum concerning members’ experience with Chinese molds, particularly concerning the cost savings, or lack thereof, compared with sourcing from the local US toolshop.  Our experience is quite contrary to that described by other members, which is the reason for this writing.

It is certainly true that inflation of steel and labor costs have been a serious concern to all Chinese toolshops over the past year, and to these problems the US buyer must add the increasing shipping costs and the up-valuation of the Yuan relative to the $.  However, one important aspect of industry globalization which is often overlooked is that those same competitive pressures leading to reduced tool pricing in the US are simultaneously working on the progressive toolshops in China with truly impressive results.  We see there extensive investment in state-of-the-art high-speed milling and EDM equipment, reorganizing to work leaner, a more detailed analysis of their actual costs, and a greatly increased emphasis on “getting it right first time”.

There is no such thing as a Chinese price for a specific mold: the quotes fall within a range, just as they do in the US, except in China the range is much wider.  Competition has brought about a certain amount of price-leveling within the main tooling regions of China, but still there is large pricing disparity from region to region.  The Shenzhen / DongGuan region, beloved of US buyers, is easily the most expensive, with the Shanghai automotive region coming in second.  AQA avoids both of them. 

Until around mid 2007, the pricing of our moderately complex molds was coming in at around 50% of what the US mold price would have been.  As getting a true apples-to-apples comparison is not easy, I would have to add that “50%” is more qualitative than quantitative..  However, in June and July 2008, we delivered two molds to a customer in the Chicago area who normally makes his own molds.  He was able to tell us what his internal costs would have been to the nearest $100, had he decided to make them in-house as usual.  The bottom line result was that the two Chinese molds gave him savings of 48% and 44% respectively.  The AQA price includes shipping to the customer’s location, US customs duty and brokerage fees, insurance, all the AQA services involved in the project management and the cost of air freighting try-out resin to China.  We did make some mistakes in both molds, and the customer’s costs to correct them were deducted from AQA’s quoted price in accordance with the guarantee.

In this case, the customer did not wish to travel China to watch the build for himself.  But in our opinion, had he decided to do so, as he is paying AQA to manage the project, the cost of the trip in time and money should be charged to satisfying curiosity and not added to the cost of the tools from China.


Peter Huntley
Posted:  30 Sep 2008 22:46
At YIP we have a domestic tooling partner that has ownership in a Chinese toolshop. We are seeing 25-30% lower costs using this China option. We too are evaluating the total cost model for shipping, handling and communications and the jury is still out as to what will be the best solution for the future. We have about 10 molds under our belt using the China shop with more coming in the 4th quarter of this year. If we cannot obtain 15% overall savings for our customers then we will probably try to sell only domestic services. I will keep you posted!

Bob Holbrook

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